Ep 10 Make It Sustainable

I just want you to win.  I want you to get off the roller coaster of trying to fit into someone else’s plan so you can reach your goals for real.  That’s why step 9 of my “Get Your Shit Together” program is about making your new habits sustainable.

Creating the protocols isn’t the hard part.  It feels great when you make a bunch of huge changes, but then it’s followed by this crash when you can’t keep all the plates spinning.  So how do you make changes that doesn’t put you on that shame roller coaster?  Revisit what we talked about in Episode 2 and make sure you’re using as little willpower as possible.

In the science of habits, there are 4 steps that get hardwired into our brains to make a habit.

  1. The cue: The signal or trigger, which you can reprogram by reducing or increasing “friction” for certain habits
  2. The craving: Your brain gets bored easily. It loves novelty. It’s satisfying to stick with a new habit for a little while, but the novelty wears off.
  3. The response:
  4. The reward: Dopamine, always.

Most importantly, you need to surround yourself with people who can see your goals with you and have the bandwidth to support you.

If you want a research-backed gut healing diet to reverse your systems and reset your relationship with food, visit goodpoopersclub.com to get the scoop.

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Music credit: “New Way Forward” by Young Presidents

A Podcast Launch Bestie production

Welcome to Science and Shit, the podcast where I show you how a healthy gut leads to a happier life. I’m your host, Michelle Casey. I’m a functional health coach who specializes in all things digestion, from heartburn to IBS to auto immune inflammatory bowel disease. I’ve seen it all. I’ve spent the last eight years in private practice helping people with chronic illness, reverse their symptoms and live their best lives. In this podcast, you will get empowered about what you can do to impact your health naturally. I’ll help you sort through the information overwhelm to figure out what’s relevant to you. If you want a holistic scientific approach, you’ve come to the right place! 

All right, first things first, if we’re going to talk about holistic health, we need to first acknowledge that white supremacy and colonization has wiped out much indigenous wisdom all over the world. And has led to gross disparities in equity and health care access. The ʻāina (land) on which I live and work is located in the ahupuaʻa (subdivision) of Kaloko, in the moku (district) of Kona, on the mokopuni (island) of Hawai’i, in the paeʻāina (nation) of Hawai’i. I recognize that Her Majesty Queen Liliʻuokalani yielded the Hawaiian Kingdom and these territories under duress and protest to the United States to avoid the bloodshed of her people. I also want to acknowledge that the Hawai’i that we enjoy today was very much shaped in a holistic and sustainable way by many generations of indigenous Hawaiians, Polynesian people. For these people, and for this work, I express my deep reverence and gratitude. Mahalo nui loa. 

It’s important to recognize and acknowledge the history of the land that we live on. Even though you or I may not be directly responsible for the harms done to native peoples. All of us non natives who live in the United States directly benefit from this harm. If you want to learn more about the land you’re on, you can start by entering your ZIP code at the native land website at Native-land.ca. 

Now let’s jump into today’s episode. Let’s get this party started.

Hello, and welcome back. Today we’re talking about Making It Sustainable. And by it, I mean  your new habits, your new routine. I was driving in my car earlier and I heard that song Falling Slowly from the movie Once, you know that British film about the busker. And it’s basically just a way to have all these songs in a movie, I’m not really sure of the plot to be honest with you, but the music is beautiful. Anyway, there’s a line in it that says, ‘you have suffered enough and warred with yourself. It’s time that you won.’ And that’s literally how I feel about this. Like, I know, I know that you’ve been doing all the things trying to fit into some plan that someone said would get you to your goal. And I just want you to win. I just want you to have a plan for your health that is actionable and relevant and achievable and sustainable. I want you to get off the roller coaster of trying to fit into other people’s plans. You need a plan that is customized for you.

And that’s why the the ninth, the final step, of my Get Your Shit Together system is called Make It Sustainable. When we’re making these big life changes, these big changes in our health, doing everything, like changing everything overnight, is a nice dopamine hit and makes you feel for a minute like you have your shit together. But it can be followed by this kind of crash when you can’t maintain that level of change. When you can’t maintain all of those changes. You can’t keep all those plates spinning in the air at the same time. And then what happens for most of us is we think that we failed. We didn’t have enough willpower. We weren’t strong enough. We weren’t disciplined enough. These are the things that I hear most often from my clients about the previous dietary changes that they were trying to make, by the way, and I need you to know that it’s a load of shit. 

Honestly, creating a plan is easy. Creating protocols is easy. Creating workouts. Creating diet plans, supplement protocols, planning out a routine for someone is the easy part. Okay, when you’ve done this as long as I have, it’s on some level paint by numbers. Even as customized as I get with my client stuff, it is not the hard part. And the most beautiful protocol in the world cannot help you if you can’t follow it. Because your body is not a paint by numbers picture. Your body is not a math problem. Your life has a ton of unique variables, sticking with the math metaphor because I am nothing if not committed. These variables are not the same as anyone else’s. And some people’s particular constitutions, the stage of life that you’re in, where you are in your healing journey, you may need a slower pace, you may need a faster pace. Healing isn’t linear. And if you have a chronic illness, or God forbid, a menstrual cycle, your energy, your capacity may be different from week to week and from day to day. 

So how do you make changes in a way that doesn’t put you on that shame roller coaster of trying to change everything and then feeling like you’re a loser, because you couldn’t change everything overnight. There’s three areas that you want to look at. We talked about this on Episode Two. Number one, you want to set up your environment to make your habits as easy as possible. Number two, you want to use as little willpower as possible. And number three, assemble your squad. So let’s dig into each of these. 

How do you set up your environment to make your habits as easy as possible. Said another way, how do you eliminate the friction around you that has it be difficult to start and maintain healthy habits. So when I say your environment, I mean the people in your life. And we’re going to talk about the people in your life in step three here, but also your physical environment. So if you want to start a journaling practice, for instance, keeping your journal next to your bed is going to make it a lot easier for you to just write a couple lines every night before you go to sleep than if it’s somewhere in the kitchen. Right? 

We can also talk about things like habit stacking. In the sort of science of habits, there are four steps that basically get hardwired into our brain that make up a habit. So there’s the cue, the craving, the response, and the reward. The cue is like the trigger, the trigger for the habit. And you can reprogram your triggers. So my husband, for instance, I always use this example because it’s so funny. And maybe it’s just funny to me, because he’s funny and I like to make fun of him. But when he brushes his teeth at night, he does these exercises for his feet, he has flat feet, it’s a whole thing. It causes all kinds of issues with his ankles and calves. And so he has these particular stretches that he does in the bathroom every single night when he’s brushing his teeth. That’s like habit stacking, but it’s also a trigger. He knows, now he’s been doing it long enough that brushing his teeth is the trigger to remind him to do his foot exercises. So those are the types of things. For a lot of people, if there’s a supplement in their protocol that they need to take away from food, I have them put it near their toothbrush. For most of us, we brush our teeth at least once a day. Hopefully twice, but at least once. So you can guarantee that if it’s near your toothbrush and you see it there, you’re more likely to take that supplement than if it were somewhere else in the house. So those are the kinds of things that eliminate friction. Kind of bundling these things together, creating triggers, reprogramming triggers, things like that. 

And then obviously like looking at your physical space from the perspective of your goals. If one of your goals is to do meal prep once a week. Is your kitchen setup for that? Is it cluttered? Do you have the counterspac that you need to do that? Or do you have a giant KitchenAid mixer that you never use, that’s using up a two foot square footprint on your counter? Are your knives sharp? Do you have the containers that you would need to store the food and after you cook it to portion it out? Those are the types of things that you can set up in advance to make your environment more agreeable. Less friction in that space to actually make it easier for you to keep that habit going. Another thing that for people that pretty much everyone I’ve ever coached, needs to eat more vegetables, or could stand to eat more vegetables. So maybe you go once a week to the farmers market, you get your beautiful produce, and then you put it in the drawer in your fridge and it goes bad. You can simply clean and process the vegetables as soon as you get home, put them in the containers, peel the carrots, chop things up. Before you even put the things away. You can set yourself up to actually use them. Because you know during the week, when you’re busy on a weekday, are you going to take the time to chop and peel all those root vegetables and put them in the oven when you’re tired from working or taking care of your kids or whatever your day holds? Are you more likely to do it if they’re already chopped? If they’re not set up for you, are you more likely to order takeout or DoorDash or whatever. So those are the types of things you can kind of think through in advance. And the trigger for chopping and processing, all those veggies would be getting home from the market. 

There’s also one time decisions that you can make that lock in healthier behavior. Things like adopting a dog. Most of you probably know that I have multiple rescue dogs in my house, three cats, three dogs. So that’s what we’ve got going on here. It’s kind of a zoo, but it works for us. They’re all very cute. But you know what, we walk those dogs every single day, at least once a day. And would I go for a walk every day, if I didn’t have dogs, maybe? Maybe, but it’s not a guarantee. So those types of things can lock in that behavior that you’re trying to cultivate. Things like getting a water filter so that the water that comes out of your tap actually tastes good or getting a Brita filter so that you can have nice cold filtered water in your fridge will help you stay hydrated. Buying a new mattress. Making sure that you have the temperature and the light situation handled in your bedroom will help you sleep better. So that’s kind of what I’m talking about with your environment. 

Science and Shit with Michelle Casey is brought to you by The Good Poopers Club. If you want to find out how you can use a research backed gut healing diet to reverse your symptoms and reset your relationship with food. Head on over to goodpoopersclub.com to get the scoop.

Okay, and then the second area here is about willpower. And I’m going to talk for quite a while about this probably because this is one of my favorite topics. Willpower should never be the deciding factor of whether or not you can keep up with your habits. It just shouldn’t. If that’s what you’re relying on, you’re dead in the water already, my friend, because it’s not reliable. It’s not a reliable resource. You can’t reliably predict what your willpower will be when you get home from work tomorrow night. Or when you finish dinner tomorrow night. So it’s part of why all of these other things are so important in setting up your environment, assembling your squad, but let’s talk about some other things that you can do to ensure that you’re not relying solely on willpower. 

So one thing that I’ve noticed, and we’re going to talk a lot about the four tendencies next season, but with all of my clients, no matter what their tendency is, focusing on what you are doing. Focusing on habits that you want to include in your day is a lot easier psychologically than focusing on the bad habits that you’re trying not to do. So one of the first principles that I learned in my very first health coaching training program was crowding out. And crowding out is very simple. It’s exactly what it sounds like, say I have a client who one of their main issues is they drink a ton of diet soda. They’re just addicted to diet soda. And we know that they need more water, they know that they need more water, but they keep focusing on the diet soda as the issue that is going to perpetuate the problem. So if they’re instead focusing on trying to hit a certain number of glasses of water per day, that’s going to give them a positive goal to focus on. And automatically, they will be drinking less diet soda because they’re drinking more water. You can do the same thing with trying to set a particular number of servings of vegetables per day. Those are the types of things, if you’re eating more vegetables, you’re going to have less room for bread and cupcakes and cinnamon rolls and whatever. So that’s kind of one of the brain hacks that I like to use is this principle of crowding out. 

Another option for the ‘bad habits’ is to make them invisible. So I recently had this, and I’m not even really someone who thinks of myself as a compulsive weigher. Like I was weighing myself every day, though and I know that that’s not even useful. Given I have a menstrual cycle, things are changing from day to day with my water retention and whatever. And I’m not even trying to lose weight. I’m trying to gain muscle right now. But I have a smart scale, it tells you this whole breakdown of like hypersensitive body fat, and blah, blah, blah. And I was getting really obsessive about it. And I literally just walked into my husband’s office, we both work from home, and I was like, I need you to hide this in here. And he was like, okay, because he doesn’t, just doesn’t relate to me as someone who needs that kind of help. And I was like, ‘No, it’s getting out of hand. I need this out of my sight.’ Because the trigger, we talked about the cue and the trigger. The trigger for me weighing myself was seeing the scale in the bathroom. Now, we need the scale. He’s doing a weight loss challenge right now. We need the scale in the house. So it’s not like I could just throw it away. But I don’t need to weigh myself every day, maybe once a month. Or once, one certain point during my cycle should I be weighing in. Gaining muscle is a lot slower than losing weight. And so it’s just not, it’s not useful. I know this, but I couldn’t stop myself. So he puts it on top of the dog crate where I can see it. I was like, no no no no no. You literally need to hide this. I need this out of my sight. He’s like, What is going on? And I was like, Don’t ask, just put it away. So he hid it. I don’t know where it is. And occas-, it’s the weirdest thing, occasionally I’ll think about weighing myself, but not nearly as often right? Because I literally cannot see the trigger. Another example of this that I heard was if you’re trying to stop watching TV, you could unplug your TV so that you literally have to go plug it in every time. That’s like one way to make the habit more kind of sticky. You’re adding friction. Or you could literally just put your TV in the closet. And you have to go get it out of the closet and plug it in. But if it’s in a closet and it’s closed away, you can’t see it and then you got to do something else. I don’t know, honestly, I don’t know what people without a TV do, board games, I don’t know cards, whatever you do. Okay, but the whole point is make it invisible, out of sight out of mind.

Another way to increase friction on these ‘bad habits’ is to just make it more difficult for yourself. Put a timer on your Wi Fi router, you can use timers that they make for Christmas lights, to turn off your internet at a certain time, if you notice that you’re staying up too late online. You can put a timer app on your social media. If you’re trying to, if you’re working on a deadline, you can give a friend your password and have them change it for you. These are what’s called commitment devices, and they literally take willpower out of the equation. Now that’s not to say you couldn’t just go turn your router back on, but you’re gonna have to think about it, you’re gonna have to think about it, you’re gonna have to walk over to where the router is. In my case, I have to open a whole cupboard. It’s a whole thing. That can be super, really helpful when you’re stuck in that dopamine reward loop of a habit that you’re trying to break. I’m trying to not call them all bad habits, but they’re just not as useful. 

I read a bunch of books on habits like two years ago and created this whole workshop about it. But one of the stories and one of the books was about the guy who wrote The Hunchback of Notre Dame, and he had gotten the advance from his publishing company to write, I can’t remember if it was that book or a different book. And he wasn’t writing, he was just like partying on the publisher’s dime. And it got to the point where the publisher was so frustrated with him, they shortened his deadline, which sounds like a freaking nightmare. And so what he did was he took all of his clothes and he locked them in a trunk and gave the key to his assistant. And all he had was like a nightgown or whatever people wore when they weren’t wearing clothes in those days. And he just couldn’t he couldn’t leave his house. And he couldn’t have people over because he didn’t have clothes. And so he just sat down and wrote the book in record time. That is a commitment device that is a one time decision that locked in a particular behavior, because he couldn’t get his clothes back until he finished the book. So you have options. 

The other thing that I want to say about willpower is that we have to be somewhat flexible with our brains. So you know from your goals or intentions. We talked about this in the last episode, we’re talking about how to measure what matters. How to measure those things that are going to get us to our goals. You take your goals and intentions, you break them down into milestones. And then you break those down into actions. We talked about how you can control your actions, not necessarily the results. So in theory, you could just say you’re going to do the same actions every single day. And in our example of the scientific experiment after 30 days or 90 days or one year, you would have nice clean data about how well that worked. But in reality, how many days can you do the same thing over and over again? I don’t know about you but for me, it’s a strong three days. I am aware that I might be on the low side of the average here, which is why I’m kind of a perfect person to teach about this topic because I literally can go about three days, maybe four. I tested this recently. I had a dental cleaning. I added on the whitening service and then they give you the little at home tray to put the little whitening stuff in, do the thing at home. And I was like, Okay, I’m motivated. I’m doing a photo shoot in like a month. I want my teeth to be whiter. I know I drink too much coffee. And so I’m going to do this thing every single night. So I was doing my flossing, my Waterpik, and then my whitening tray, literally three days, three days religiously, and then I was like, I’m bored of this. This is a lot. 

So the thing that happens is that your brain craves novelty. Which is a pitfall when we’re talking about habits and consistency. But you can use it to your advantage by creating a menu of different actions that you can take that move you forward towards your goals. This is especially important for people with chronic illness, with menstrual cycles, with ADHD, if you are a caregiver or in a helping profession, and/or if you’re like me, and you have a great big rebellious personality. For instance, one of the side effects of my having had ulcerative colitis is that I developed osteoporosis in literally in my mid 30s. 

Before the pandemic, I had actually increased my bone density somewhat. But in the last couple of years, I got out of all of my habits, sat on my ass, ate a lot of takeout, and the osteoporosis returned. And it’s worse than it was before. So one of my main health goals is to reverse it. And obviously, I want to do that as fast as possible. But bodies can only remodel bones so fast. And it isn’t even something that you can test and check in on every week or every month. In fact, every two years is actually the standard for a bone density test. And obviously, I can, there’s things I can do like lifting heavy weights, but you can’t really do that all in one day. And you can’t really lift heavy weights every single day. You actually have to rest to make sure that that tissue, that bone, and the muscle is actually remodeling and getting stronger. However, there are things that I can do every day to ensure that the weightlifting is successful. I can eat to support the building of new bone and muscle. I can make sure that I’m eating enough so my body doesn’t go catabolic and eat its own muscle tissue. I can do my flexibility and my mobility work. I can go get body work. I can work on my stress management to ensure that I can show up for my workouts and push as hard as I need to. 

So there’s different actions that I’m taking on different days, which are all getting me towards my goal, which for me, is super important because especially since my workouts are real powerlifting centered. They’re kind of boring workouts in some ways, like I’m practicing the same three lifts every week, it can get pretty boring. So the variety of doing something different every day satisfies that need for novelty. I really think the magic formula is the right amount of novelty, consistency, and a very powerful intention. I am determined to reverse this osteoporosis and tell you all that I did it. And I have a little bit of pressure on me because I’m 43. And it’s a lot easier to do this before you hit menopause. So I am very, very motivated.

Now, when I talk about novelty, though, we need to make sure that our menu of actions isn’t too big. We can’t have so many different actions on there that we don’t get the repetitions that we need to build the brain pattern around the habit. You may have heard this term neuroplasticity, it basically refers to the fact that the neuronal pathways, that is the way that our brain and our nervous system fires these different patterns. Those pathways can be changed and new pathways can be created. That’s basically what that means. And this isn’t like a mental phenomenon. This isn’t like you’re thinking your way into a new pattern. It’s literally physiological. You may have heard the term, you can act your way into a new way of thinking, but you can’t think your way into a new way of acting. I don’t know. I just know that for the purposes of brain science, this is how this works. The action rewires the pattern. 

There’s one of these sorts of laws in neurology that’s called Hebb’s law. It states that neurons that fire together, wire together. It’s just like a muscle that we’re trying to strengthen. We can strengthen those pathways, those neurons that fire together with repetition. When we repeat those behaviors over and over again, the neurons that are responsible for initiating the behaviors become more and more myelinated. Myelin is the protective fatty sheath that covers our nerves and protects them. An unmyelinated neuron can fire at about two miles an hour versus a fully myelinated neuron that can fire at about 200 miles per hour. That’s fucking fast. What that means for you is that it requires less willpower to do that behavior. It becomes almost automatic. And you’ll notice whether that’s you’re working out in the gym, you’re prepping your food once a week, you’re doing your dental hygiene every night, whatever it is. The more repetitions that you do, the easier it becomes to do it. And obviously the personal trainer in me wants you to have good form when you’re doing those repetitions. So please make sure that you get the support that you need to learn how to do if you’re, if we’re talking about exercise, that you learn how to do it right. Because if you learn how to do it wrong, that’s harder to unwire. It’s harder to, I mean, God, I just, even I’m trying to change something about my benchpress right now and it’s like breaking my brain every single workout to try to get this one little tweak that my coach is trying to teach me. But it’s because I’ve done it the other way for 25 years or something. One last note about this, there is sort of this mythology around habits that it takes, you know, 10,000 hours or 30 days or some exact number, to make a behavior a habit. Scientists have not found that to be accurate, just so you know, it’s all just reps. It’s reps and time. Reps over time, if you want a formula, and everyone’s brain is a little bit different. So the time that it takes for you to get that fully myelinated pathway, that 200 miles per hour, zoom zoom habit is going to be a little different than anyone else. Okay, so that’s what you need to know about willpower, let’s talk about your squad. 

Who are the people in your life who believe that your goal is possible? One of the things that helps my clients is to think about who they want to be. Maybe it’s not someone that you see yourself as now, but what’s the identity you associate with reaching your goal? Said another way, who would you get to be if you fulfilled this goal or intention? For me, I just want to be strong as fuck, I just want to be able to like, if our house was burning down, I want to be able to pull my husband who’s got about 100 pounds on me out of the house. Do you know what I’m saying? I just don’t, I don’t want to have to ask anyone to open a jar for me ever. Like I just want to be so strong. And sometimes I talk about it, like I want to get jacked, or I want to get massive or whatever. I just have my particular ways of talking about it. But that’s really the identity. It’s like, yes, being a power lifter, but it’s deeper than that. And here’s the hard truth about that, not everyone in your life will have the imagination or the mental flexibility or the willingness to see you that way. Especially if they’ve known you as some totally different identity. And that doesn’t always mean that you cut those people out of your life, but maybe they just aren’t part of your hype squad. 

So there’s people that can actually imagine that goal coming true for you. And then of those people, there’s the people who have the bandwidth to support you. We talked about your energy being different from day to day, so is everybody else’s in your life. So not just putting all your eggs in one basket, not just relying on one person. Even my clients I’m like, you gotta make sure that the other people in your life, that you have other people besides just me, besides just your coach to support you. You need a whole squad. If you don’t have those people, you got to find them. There’s a lot of online support groups, there’s book clubs, there’s coaching programs with community aspects to them. But having that accountability, especially around those actions that feel like they have a little more friction to them. Meet a friend at the farmers market every week, get a latte and wander around and meet your farmers and get your beautiful produce or whatever. Have it be something that has even more of a reward attached to it than just the habit. Just the vegetables. Hiring a personal trainer, having a life coach, having a health coach, all of those things. I mean, listen, I would not have made the progress that I’ve made in the last five months in the gym without my trainer, I just wouldn’t have. I will find reasons not to go. I love the gym. I love the gym. It is so like my church, but I will find reasons not to go right. So having that accountability is so so important. But I also don’t like to completely rely on him. I have other people around me that see me as this future that I’m living into. 

And then I have to put a pitch in here for The Good Poopers Club, because the accountability of going through a process of improving your health with other people who are doing the same thing is unmatched. Remember how I said your brain loves novelty? It’s why processed food is so popular. It’s why porn is so addictive. It’s why people still gamble, even though the house always wins. It’s also why when you try to do an elimination diet, you might make it on your own for 21 or 30 days. But at the end of the elimination phase, it is almost impossible not to find yourself face first in a pizza, or whatever the foods are that you’ve been depriving yourself of. It’s like day 31 ,people are just eating everything again. Which when you’re trying to actually identify your trigger foods, that’s just shooting yourself in the foot, like why go through the 30 days to begin with? We need support but we also need to, what is the word I’m thinking of, like dissect this four step process. The cue, the craving, the response, the reward. We get dopamine from the reward. So how do we find other sources for dopamine? Especially when we’re trying to take out certain foods that cause a dopamine response. We need to reverse engineer this process, we need to reinforce the good habits that we want, and we need to break up the habits or the process that keeps those old habits in place. We address each of these steps in The Good Poopers Club. In fact, unlike most elimination diets that my clients tell me they’ve done, around half of the participants don’t even want to reintroduce a lot of foods back in when we get to the end of the elimination phase because they feel so damn good. Just so you know, I encourage people to do the reintroductions, variety is really important. But people just literally feel amazing. And they have rewired those habits to the point where they don’t feel like they need those foods anymore. 

When we’re in community, when we’re working towards a common goal together with like minded people, it actually strengthens those neural pathways even faster. We see ourselves in each other’s struggles and triumphs. We’d love to support other people and feel supported. And it feels safe to strive for goals when we see other people striving too. On some level fitting in is the most primal human need. If you think about our ancient hunter gatherer societies, if you were cast out of your group, you wouldn’t survive on your own. So it’s the most important thing, I think, to find those people that you vibe with, that believe that what you’re trying to do is possible and that support you. So, The Good Poopers Club, if you don’t know, is an eight week elimination diet focused program. We are healing your gut and teaching you how to identify foods that cause your symptoms, whatever those are. For most people, they are digestive issues. But it also could be chronic pain. It also could be skin problems. It also could be mood swings, anxieties, sleep disturbances, things like that. And I take you through the process in a group. And I don’t even call it a safe space because it’s a really brave space. It is a really brave thing to do this together and to let other people see you in this process. And I just, it’s my favorite thing. It’s my favorite thing. So to find out more, you can go to goodpoopersclub.com. In the meantime, when we are talking about making it sustainable, the three places you want to look and the three places I want you to go to work on are number one, setting up your environment to make your habits as easy as possible. Two, use less willpower. And three, assemble your squad whatever that looks like for you. Thank you so much for joining me for this episode, and I look forward to next season. Bye. 

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Science and Shit with Michelle Casey. If you want to stay in touch head on over to michellecaseynutrition.com/podcast to get in on all goodness. I know you have a lot of things you could be doing with your time and I really appreciate you choosing to spend it with me. If this episode was valuable for you, please subscribe, follow, and share it with your friends and family and/or leave a review as an offering to the algorithm gods. Until next time, be excellent to each other!